Legislature(2001 - 2002)

11/28/2001 09:03 AM Senate TRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                    
                 SENATE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE                                                                              
                        November 28, 2001                                                                                       
                            9:03 a.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator John Cowdery, Chair                                                                                                     
Senator Jerry Ward, Vice Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Robin Taylor                                                                                                            
Senator Gary Wilken                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
UPPER COOK INLET & RAILBELT LONG RANGE TRANSPORTATION NEEDS &                                                                   
REGIONAL PORT AUTHORITY HEARING                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Steve Boardman                                                                                                                  
US Army Corps of Engineers                                                                                                      
CEPOA-PM Box 898                                                                                                                
Anchorage, AK 99506                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Rob Campbell                                                                                                                    
Department of Transportation &                                                                                                  
Public Facilities                                                                                                               
3132 Channel Dr.                                                                                                                
Juneau, AK  99801-7898                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
General Patrick Gamble                                                                                                          
Chief Executive Officer (CEO)                                                                                                   
Alaska Railroad Corporation                                                                                                     
PO Box 107500                                                                                                                   
Anchorage, AK  99510-7500                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Frank Dillon                                                                                                                    
Executive Vice President                                                                                                        
Alaska Trucking Association                                                                                                     
Anchorage, AK  99501                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Paul Fuhs                                                                                                                       
1635 Sitka #301                                                                                                                 
Anchorage, AK  99501                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Governor Bill Sheffield                                                                                                         
Port of Anchorage                                                                                                               
P.O. Box 196650                                                                                                                 
Anchorage, AK  99519                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
John Duffy                                                                                                                      
Matanuska-Susitna Borough Manager                                                                                               
350 East Dahlia Ave.                                                                                                            
Palmer, AK  99645                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Kirk McGee                                                                                                                      
Cook Inlet Region, Incorporated                                                                                                 
2525 C St.                                                                                                                      
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Aves Thompson                                                                                                                   
Director of Measurement Standards and Commercial Vehicle                                                                        
Enforcement Division                                                                                                            
Department of Transportation &                                                                                                  
Public Facilities                                                                                                               
3132 Channel Dr.                                                                                                                
Juneau, AK  99801-7898                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Matt Rolley                                                                                                                     
City Manager, City of Whittier                                                                                                  
P.O. Box 608                                                                                                                    
Whittier, AK  99693                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Tim Krug                                                                                                                        
City Planner, City of Wasilla                                                                                                   
290 East Herning Ave.                                                                                                           
Wasilla, AK  99654                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Captain Bob Pawlowski                                                                                                           
Alaska Program Manager, Thales Geo Solutions                                                                                    
        th                                                                                                                      
911 W. 8 Ave                                                                                                                    
Anchorage, AK  99501                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Gene Sarrels                                                                                                                    
Chairman, Anchorage Port Commission                                                                                             
P.O. Box 196650                                                                                                                 
Anchorage, AK  99519                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
James Armstrong                                                                                                                 
Anchorage Metropolitan Area Transportation Study                                                                                
4700 S.Bragaw                                                                                                                   
Anchorage, AK  99508                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Rynnieve Moss                                                                                                                   
Staff to Representative Coghill                                                                                                 
119 N. Cushman Suite 211                                                                                                        
Fairbanks, AK  99701                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-25, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN JOHN  COWDERY called the Senate Transportation  Committee                                                            
meeting to order at 9:03 a.m. Members  present were Senators Jerry                                                              
Ward and Kim  Elton.  Senator Ben  Stevens was also present.   The                                                              
order of  business is  Upper Cook  Inlet and  Railbelt long  range                                                              
transportation needs.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  COWDERY informed  participants that  the purpose  of the                                                              
meeting is  for long range  transportation planning of  Upper Cook                                                              
Inlet  and  discussions of  the  possibility  of a  Regional  Port                                                              
Authority.     The   Department  of   Transportation  and   Public                                                              
Facilities  (DOTPF) will present  a brief  on a proposed  regional                                                              
transportation  analysis  to  provide   coordination  on  all  the                                                              
projects.   The Corps of Engineers  is conducting studies  of Cook                                                              
Inlet circulation and sedimentation  and the possible cost benefit                                                              
analysis of the  Fire Island Project.  Each project  that is being                                                              
proposed impacts the other.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
He said he  would like to  hear everyone testify of  their efforts                                                              
and   willingness  to   coordinate   and   cooperate  with   other                                                              
transportation entities.   The Municipality  of Anchorage  and the                                                              
Matanuska  Susitna  Valley  are   contemplating  a  Regional  Port                                                              
Authority as  a way of  coordinating their  efforts.  He  spoke of                                                              
the  opportunity to  achieve  many  of the  projects  if all  work                                                              
together.    The Congress,  Legislature,  and  Transportation  and                                                              
Finance  Committees  want to  see  a  coordinated approach  at  an                                                              
overall plan.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
STEVE BOARDMAN,  US Army Corps  of Engineers, explained  the Corps                                                              
of Engineers has a number of projects  in the Southcentral Region.                                                              
He detailed the past and current  maintenance dredging activity in                                                              
the  Port of  Anchorage  and Cook  Inlet  Navigational Channel  as                                                              
being inadequate for today's carriers.   He discussed the Corps of                                                              
Engineer  study, which  includes  a physical  model  of the  tidal                                                              
actions and  currents at  the Port  of Anchorage and  incorporates                                                              
the  proposed  bridge  or  causeway crossing  Knik  Arm  to  Point                                                              
Mackenzie into this physical model.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He  also said  that  Congress had  instructed  the  Army Corps  of                                                              
Engineers  to do a  feasibility study  of building  a causeway  to                                                              
Fire Island.  This would include  the possibility of building port                                                              
facilities  at Fire  Island  and  a benefit  to  cost analysis  of                                                              
relocating the Port of Anchorage to Fire Island.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOARDMAN proposed  an authorization "to maintain  a channel of                                                              
a certain  width and certain depth  through the entire  Cook Inlet                                                              
and  no matter  what  shoal occurs  within  the channel  boundary,                                                              
then, we  (Army Corps of Engineers)  have the authority  to go out                                                              
and  remove it."  He  wanted the  Municipality  of Anchorage,  the                                                              
Matanuska-Susitna Borough, and the  Kenai Borough to work with the                                                              
Corps of  Engineers to determine the  needs and to make  a logical                                                              
plan for navigational improvements in this region.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN COWERY  emphasized that every project affects  the others                                                              
and ask Mr. Boardman to comment on that.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOARDMAN explained  that initially the physical  model concept                                                              
was just the  immediate area of the  Port of Anchorage.   Now with                                                              
potential causeways  to Point Mackenzie  and Fire Island  the flow                                                              
patterns  would be  changed.   Data  is necessary  and  has to  be                                                              
evaluated and incorporated  into an expanded model  to capture the                                                              
crossing(s) and  figure out what  the impacts of  that crossing(s)                                                              
will be.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR   WARD   asked  Mr.   Boardman   what  the   increase   in                                                              
transportation would be if there was a channel 45 feet deep.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOARDMAN  said that more  information needed to  be generated.                                                              
The benefits could be additional  cargo or additional efficiencies                                                              
to navigation.   Insurance  companies want at  least 6  feet under                                                              
the  keel to  bring  a  vessel in,  so  45  feet today  is  almost                                                              
required  just  to  handle traffic  to  provide  that  protection.                                                              
Proposed legislation  in the Army  Corps of Engineers  system that                                                              
may be part  of the Water Resource  Development Act of  2002 is to                                                              
lower that threshold  from 45 to 55 feet.  The  traffic that would                                                              
require a depth  of 55 feet will  drive looking at that  depth for                                                              
the channel in Cook Inlet.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ROB  CAMPBELL,   Department  of  Transportation   and  Public                                                              
Facilities  (DOTPF),  discussed  an  effort to  study  a  regional                                                              
planning authority  type of  body for  Southcentral Alaska.   They                                                              
have hired a consultant for three tasks.                                                                                        
   · Compile, coordinate and summarize a list of various planning                                                               
     studies that have occurred in the past.                                                                                    
   · Put together an ad hoc transportation committee to interlock                                                               
     transportation efforts.                                                                                                    
   · Ask ad hoc committee to develop a plan for a permanent                                                                     
     planning board for this region.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR CAMPBELL explained  that this plan would be  more external from                                                              
DOTPF than  the Southeast Transportation  Plan.  It  would involve                                                              
additional parties to effectively look at the big picture.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
GENERAL  PATRICK   GAMBLE,  Alaska  Railroad   Corporation  (CEO),                                                              
explained that  the railroad and  DOTPF get together  annually and                                                              
that that meeting saves time and  money for both the state and the                                                              
railroad.  He felt the only logical  way to proceed with ambitious                                                              
projects is  to take  a corporate approach  and draw  out everyone                                                              
that has an interest, municipalities,  boroughs, state and private                                                              
corporations.     If  consensus   is  reached  then   the  federal                                                              
government  sees  a united  front  with enduring  properties  that                                                              
provides  a clear vision  for tying  huge projects  together.   He                                                              
said  the  railroad  can build  projects  independently  but  that                                                              
doesn't  work.    The Alaska  Railroad  Corporation  is  a  strong                                                              
proponent of  coming together for  a regional transportation  plan                                                              
with clarity  of purpose  in the State  of Alaska.   This regional                                                              
approach would enable the process rather than impede it.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  COWDERY recognized  Congressman  Young's staff,  General                                                              
Sharrow as being  present.  He then reemphasized  the need to give                                                              
the congressional delegation a regional plan.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DILLON,  Alaska Trucking  Association  (ATA)  Executive  Vice                                                              
President,  said  that  ATA  represents  a  variety  of  different                                                              
transportation  modes.   He  supported  the testimony  of  General                                                              
Gamble  and Mr.  Campbell  with regards  to  a larger  focus on  a                                                              
regional plan.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. DILLON expressed concern with  the Federal Highway Trust Fund.                                                              
The money from that  trust fund comes from fuel taxes.  Of the $35                                                              
billion  to be  collected  this year  the  trucking industry  will                                                              
contribute   approximately   38%.     He   feels  the   nationwide                                                              
infrastructure is failing and much  of the fuel tax money is being                                                              
spent  on the  process.   He  wants  to see  two  changes made  in                                                              
federal  legislation  to  enable  a  regional  planning  group  to                                                              
accomplish their plan.                                                                                                          
   · Get fundamental changes on how money can be spent in a new                                                                 
     federal highway bill streamlining the process.                                                                             
   · Get the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 (NEPA)                                                                   
     regulations streamlined to shorten down the timeline for                                                                   
     projects.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-25, SIDE B                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
SENATOR  WARD  remarked  on  how  he had  introduced  a  Knik  Arm                                                              
Crossing bill 20  years ago and that there was  no federal funding                                                              
available  at that  time.   He  feels  that now,  Congressman  Don                                                              
Young,  US  House  of  Representatives'  Transportation  Committee                                                              
Chair, and unified direction at the  state level can influence how                                                              
federal dollars come to Alaska.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEN STEVENS asked the following questions.                                                                              
   · Where the funding would come from for a regional authority?                                                                
   · How they would develop a plan?                                                                                             
   · Is the concept building another layer of master plan                                                                       
     bureaucracy and how could that be eliminated?                                                                              
   · Would the regional planning authority conduct all the                                                                      
     surveys for the region or would each of the individual                                                                     
     components conduct a survey and then promote it up to the                                                                  
     major regional planning authority?                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL  answered that that  is the kind of  information they                                                              
want  to gather  through the  consultants and  by networking  with                                                              
other areas of the country that have port authorities.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS  asked  would the  local  planning  authority  be                                                              
willing to forgo  the funding to give it to  the regional planning                                                              
authority?  Is that what the consultants would figure out?                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
GENERAL GAMBLE  said the current  process is time  consuming, very                                                              
expensive and neither productive  nor effective.  He felt there is                                                              
a better  way and that  there are cities  and countries  that have                                                              
been successful.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON  expressed  concern  about  how  this  southcentral                                                              
region's transportation  plan will impact  the rest of  the state.                                                              
He gave examples  of how priorities that are established  may work                                                              
for this region,  but may have huge impacts in other  areas of the                                                              
state.   He wanted  to make sure  there is some  focus on  how you                                                              
make  decisions   that  work   for  all   regions  and   how  that                                                              
coordination would happen.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. FUHS spoke about port authorities  to allow flexibly so groups                                                              
could  get together  where  it made  economic  sense  for them  to                                                              
combine their  operations.  He  gave examples including  Prince of                                                              
Wales Island.   There a port authority has been  implemented where                                                              
several communities have gotten their  own ferry service.  He said                                                              
that a port authority is formed by  a vote of the local people, or                                                              
by the state government.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
He went on to list reasons to form port authorities.                                                                            
   · More stability in management makes it less political.                                                                      
   · The debt of the port authority, not being the debt of the                                                                  
     municipality, frees up bonding capacity for other                                                                          
     facilities.                                                                                                                
   · Each project has to make economic sense because there is no                                                                
     access to the municipal taxing authority                                                                                   
   · When smaller entities join with larger entities it increases                                                               
     their bonding capacity.                                                                                                    
   · Port authorities have "clear focus" because transportation                                                                 
     is such an important and critical infrastructure for                                                                       
     communities.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  COWDERY  commented on  port  authorities  being able  to                                                              
coordinate  projects  and  being   independent  of  the  political                                                              
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON said  he was  familiar with  the Inter-Island  Port                                                              
Authority,  which  was  designed   for  the  specific  purpose  of                                                              
providing ferry  service.   He asked if  there were others  in the                                                              
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FUHS said  Valdez,  Fairbanks  and  the North  Slope  Borough                                                              
incorporated  the only other  port authority  for the building  of                                                              
the natural gas pipeline.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON stated that  those port  authorities were  designed                                                              
around a single  purpose. General authority for  multiple purposes                                                              
may increase the problems of fragmentation.   He asked, under port                                                              
authorities what other  ways are you allowed to  raise money other                                                              
than bonding?                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. FUHS  said that in  Alaska's port  authority law they  have no                                                              
taxing authority.  However, municipalities  can dedicate a portion                                                              
of their  taxes.  Port authorities  also have their  own revenues,                                                              
they can receive state and federal  grants and they can enter into                                                              
joint  ventures   with  private   companies  to  jointly   operate                                                              
facilities.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON wanted to know how a member could withdraw.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. FUHS  answered that it  is set up as  a board and the  vote of                                                              
the board  sets the policy.   A municipality can  withdraw subject                                                              
to the covenants of the bonds.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BILL SHEFFIELD,  Director of the Port of Anchorage  and former                                                              
governor, explained  the need for  structure to deal with  so many                                                              
projects.   He agreed with  Mr. Dillon that  it takes too  long to                                                              
get a project done  and that about a third of  the funds are spent                                                              
on  nonessentials.   There  is a  great need  to  get Congress  to                                                              
change so that projects  can be accomplished in 5 to  6 years.  He                                                              
emphasized  that money  can be  obtained from  Congress but  first                                                              
there has to be a plan.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SHEFFIELD  estimated  that 80-90%  of  Alaskan  freight  goes                                                              
through a  port.  He thinks  Congress is just starting  to realize                                                              
that there  are no  funding methods  available for  infrastructure                                                              
for ports.  He explained the need  for the reauthorization  of T21                                                              
so there  is  money channeled  into transportation  infrastructure                                                              
across this country for rail, road and ports.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SHEFFIELD described  the  Corps of  Engineers  model and  the                                                              
continued dredging  and monies  available for  dredging.   NOAA is                                                              
now preparing  for a wave  and current  study in upper  Cook Inlet                                                              
and will incorporate  it into the Corps of Engineers  model.  That                                                              
wave and current data will give the  ship captains and pilots real                                                              
time information  on what is happening  in the inlet 24  hours per                                                              
day which was not available before.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He said the  Port of Anchorage's  goal is to become a  world class                                                              
port.                                                                                                                           
   · Next spring, the first phase of new docks is to be under                                                                   
    construction followed by rehabilitation of the old ones.                                                                    
   · A road was closed to open up more land inside the port.                                                                    
   · It is working with the military to have the defense fuel                                                                   
     property transferred to the port to give it more land and                                                                  
     more sightings for loading military equipment.                                                                             
   · It is planning a road and rail behind the port to make it an                                                               
     efficient intermodal facility.  This could be an access                                                                    
     startup for the Knik Arm Crossing.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHEFFIELD  said the port is growing  at about 2 ½  percent per                                                              
year and in 20 years it will double  its' business.  New and wider                                                              
ships are going  to be coming into  the port.  The new  docks will                                                              
be 5 lanes wide to be able to service  these ships.  There is room                                                              
for additional expansion on tidelands  that are owned by the port.                                                              
The new port  will also allow  them to handle cruise  ships, which                                                              
are expected this decade.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
He said  that Anchorage  is projected  to run  out of  residential                                                              
land in 20  years so he feels  the Knik Arm Crossing  is important                                                              
because  it can provide  for residential  growth.   A deeper  port                                                              
with  better  access  and  more  availability  at  the  dock  will                                                              
increase the usage by military ships.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHEFFIELD said that the tax dollars  collected from properties                                                              
that are  leased from  the Port  Authorities are  returned  to the                                                              
Port  Authority  and  that  with  Port  Authorities,  a  layer  of                                                              
bureaucracy  is  removed and  then  replaced  with an  elected  or                                                              
appointed port commission.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN COWDERY  stated that the  Port Authority Board  only sets                                                              
the policies,  they hire  executive directors  and managers  to do                                                              
the real work.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD  discussed the Marine  Highway system needing  a land                                                              
base to be  able to operate  similarly to the Alaska  Railroad. He                                                              
felt  transferring state  or federal  land to  the Port  Authority                                                              
could provide them a revenue base.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SHEFFIELD  replied that  the  only  way  to have  the  Marine                                                              
Highway system be set up similar  to the Alaska Railroad is if the                                                              
Marine Highway system owned some real estate to derive income.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-26, SIDE A                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  DUFFY, Matanuska-Susitna  Borough  Manager,  said he  agreed                                                              
with the  comments made  by previous  speakers regarding  regional                                                              
transportation  coordination,  recognizing   that  the  Matanuska-                                                              
Susitna Borough  and Anchorage shared one  regional transportation                                                              
system and regional  economy.  Financial resources  are limited so                                                              
investments must be made prudently,  all of the projects should be                                                              
coordinated and programmed  and that all parties be  involved.  He                                                              
felt the timing  is right to do  something now but it  will take a                                                              
lot of effort.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. DUFFY then listed the projects  across the inlet.  He stressed                                                              
the  need  for  some  type  of  coordination   now  to  start  the                                                              
prioritizing  and coordinating of  these transportation  projects.                                                              
He felt however  that each jurisdiction is still  going to have to                                                              
do their plans.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
KIRK McGEE, Vice  President of Real Estate with  Cook Inlet Region                                                              
Incorporated (CIRI),  discussed Fire Island.  The  island is about                                                              
4000 acres  of which CIRI  owns about  3000 acres.   CIRI supports                                                              
transferring the  250 acres that is  the likely site for  any port                                                              
development  from the federal  government  to the Municipality  of                                                              
Anchorage under a legislative transfer.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He discussed a  CIRI study showing that a causeway  could be built                                                              
using  the  materials from  the  inlet.  He  wanted the  Corps  of                                                              
Engineers  cost/benefit analysis  and  the tide  current model  to                                                              
include  the water  between  Pt.  Campbell and  Fire  Island.   He                                                              
thinks that  AMATS should  look at  linkages between the  causeway                                                              
and other  roads emphasizing  that Fire Island  is able  to supply                                                              
the industrial land Anchorage will need as it continues to grow.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
AVES THOMPSON,  Director of  Measurement Standards and  Commercial                                                              
Vehicle  Enforcement   DOTPF,  stressed  the  importance   of  the                                                              
commercial  vehicle  element, making  infrastructure  planning  to                                                              
support these vehicles vital.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MATT ROWLES,  City Manager,  City  of Whittier,  said the City  of                                                              
Whittier wants  to be involved  in this process.   It has  a deep,                                                              
ice  free port  and road  access located  only 60  miles from  the                                                              
Anchorage population center.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TIM  KRUG,  City  Planner,  City   of  Wasilla  discussed  current                                                              
projects in Wasilla and how they  are working with other groups to                                                              
make a master plan for that community.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN  BOB   PAWLOWSKI,  Alaska  Program  Manager,   Thales  Geo                                                              
Solutions  Inc., supports  moving  forward  with a  transportation                                                              
plan.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-26, SIDE B                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
GENE  SARROWS,  Chairman,  Anchorage  Port  Commission,  favors  a                                                              
committee over a Port Authority.   This would allow projects to be                                                              
presented as  complete packages that  have been well  coordinated.                                                              
He also  believes that additional  areas need to be  included such                                                              
as  Kotzebue  and  Fairbanks, which  are  dependent  on  Anchorage                                                              
transportation.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JAMES ARMSTRONG, Anchorage Metropolitan  Area Transportation Study                                                              
(AMATS), said AMATS endorses the regional planning process.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Rynnieva Moss, Staff to Representative  Coghill, wanted to mention                                                              
that DNR  views RS  2477 corridors  as recreation  trails,  not as                                                              
transportation  corridors.   They need  to be  using them for  new                                                              
roads and railroads.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN COWDERY adjourned the meeting at 11:45 pm.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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